BASEBALL COACHES UNPLUGGED
The Ultimate Baseball Coaching Podcast. Step inside the dugout with Baseball Coaches Unplugged, the must-listen podcast for players, coaches, and parents who want to unlock the secrets of baseball greatness. Hosted by Ken Carpenter, a 27-year coaching veteran, this show delivers exclusive insights from top athletes and coaches, revealing what separates champions from the rest.
Imagine gaining insider access to the mental strategies, elite skills, and game-changing drills that fuel success. Whether you're a coach shaping the next powerhouse team, a player ready to elevate your game, or a parent guiding an athlete’s journey, every episode is packed with real-world lessons on resilience, preparation, and mastery.
From behind-the-scenes stories of triumph and setbacks to the unwritten rules of baseball success, Baseball Coaches Unplugged is your ultimate playbook for thriving on and off the field.
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BASEBALL COACHES UNPLUGGED
Stealing Victory: How 160+ Stolen Bases Led to CWS Championship Game
Nestled within the captivating world of collegiate baseball lies an extraordinary tale of transformation. Phil Schallenberger, head coach of Messiah University's baseball program, guides us through his team's remarkable journey from a disheartening 1-7 start to playing for the Division III College World Series championship.
The turning point came not through a strategic overhaul but a profound shift in perspective. After striking out 15 times against the #1 ranked team, Schallenberger embraced honest player feedback that would reshape their season: "Coach, it's not that you're communicating anything wrong—it's that it's being interpreted differently than intended." This vulnerability opened doors to authentic dialogue and a liberating team philosophy centered on purpose beyond outcomes.
Schallenberger reveals how creating a culture where conflict is valued rather than avoided became their secret weapon. "If there's no tension or friction, then you just have people saying yes because they think that's what they're supposed to do," he explains. This environment nurtured a team described by one veteran umpire as "the most unified and selfless team I've seen in 20+ years."
The conversation delves into practical strategies behind Messiah's explosive offense—stealing over 160 bases while breaking school home run records—and how removing fear fostered aggressive yet intelligent baseball. Drawing from his experience with the viral sensation Savannah Bananas, Schallenberger explains how incorporating fun and self-expression actually elevated their competitive edge.
Perhaps most compelling is Schallenberger's evolution from a coach who "hated losing more than loved winning" to one reporters called "the happiest coach I've ever seen lose a baseball game" after their championship defeat. His response? "Our identity truly isn't wrapped up in wins."
Whether you're a coach seeking to transform your program, a player looking to elevate your mental approach, or simply someone who appreciates stories of remarkable turnarounds, this conversation offers wisdom that transcends the diamond. Listen now to discover how surrendering outcomes might be your path to achieving what once seemed impossible.
Creating a culture where honest feedback and authentic communication thrive between coaches and players
• Embracing conflict as necessary for growth rather than something to be avoided
• Shifting from pressure-filled, outcome-focused baseball to playing with freedom and purpose
• Developing an aggressive base-running system that stole over 160 bases while maintaining an 80+% success rate
• Building a multi-dimensional offense that broke school home run records while remaining fundamentally sound
• Learning to surrender outcomes and find identity beyond baseball results
• Applying lessons from coaching with the Savannah Bananas to create an environment where players enjoy the game
• Encouraging players to embrace their personalities while maintaining competitive excellence
Join our podcast weekly for more insights from the best coaches in baseball as we break down the game and share incredible behind-the-scenes stories.
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For most teams starting out the season 1-7 could be an indicator of a long season. Not for today's guest. He didn't just turn the season around. They played in a Division III College World Series championship game. Phil Schallenberger, messiah University, head baseball coach. Next on Baseball Coaches Unplugged.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Baseball Coaches Unplugged with Coach Ken Carpenter, presented by AthleteOne. Baseball Coaches Unplugged is a podcast for baseball coaches With 27 years of high school baseball coaching under his belt, here to bring you the inside scoop on all things baseball, from game-winning strategies and pitching secrets to hitting drills and defensive drills. We're covering it all. Whether you're a high school coach, college coach or just a baseball enthusiast, we'll dive into the tactics and techniques that make the difference on and off the field. Discover how to build a winning mentality. Inspire your players and get them truly bought into your game philosophy Plus, get the latest insights on recruiting, coaching, leadership and crafting a team culture that champions productivity and success. Join Coach every week as he breaks down the game and shares incredible behind-the-scenes stories. Your competitive edge starts here, so check out the show weekly and hear from the best coaches in the game. On Baseball Coaches Unplugged.
Speaker 1:Baseball Coaches Unplugged is proud to be partnered with the netting professionals, improving programs one facility at a time. Wilt Miner and his team at the Netting Professionals. They specialize in the design, fabrication and installation of custom netting for baseball and softball. This includes backstops, batting cages, bp turtles, screens, ball carts and more. They also design and install digital graphic wall padding, windscreen, turf, turf protectors, dugout benches and cubbies. The Netting Pros also work with football, soccer, lacrosse and golf courses. Contact them today at 844-620-2707. That's 844-620-2707. Or visit them online at wwwnettingproscom. Check out Netting Pros on X, instagram, facebook and LinkedIn for all their latest products and projects. If you enjoyed today's show, please be sure and share it with a friend, and don't forget to hit the subscribe button and leave us a review. It helps us to grow the show. Today I sit down with Division III National Runner-Up at Messiah University Head Baseball Coach, phil Schallenberger. Coach, thanks for taking time to be on Baseball Coaches Unplugged.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Thanks for having me Getting excited for this conversation.
Speaker 1:Well, when the 2025 season started, if I'd have told you Messiah University would be playing in the national championship game, what would you have said?
Speaker 3:I would have said we have a long, long way to go, especially if you were to ask me that after our first seven games. So I knew we had talent, I knew we were capable, but I think at that point we were still trying to win our first conference championship in 12 years. So I would have said that I would have not said that that's. I'd say our odds would have been pretty slim at that point.
Speaker 1:Well, like you said, you led right into my next question. You started the season, I believe, 1-7. But then you. What every coach wants is it's how you finish. And you won, I believe, 22 out of the last 24 before the national championship. Can you explain how the team kind of transformed throughout the season as it progressed?
Speaker 3:Sure, I think probably where to start would be at the very, very beginning, even just working into the fall practice season, um, and at the end, towards the end of the summer, I actually sat down with our who ended up being our team captain, uh, jared gordon, who was our two hitter, second baseman, and we sat at a coffee shop, uh, just kind of talking through like the vision for what next year looked like and and what I needed from him. And I was like what do you, what do you guys need from me? And one of the really cool things we got to do as a team is we went on a missions trip to the Dominican Republic and got to go down there the year prior, and so our focus like really started to shift there towards like of glorifying God with everything that we do in in our play and pointing others closer to him. And and so I was a little nervous going into that next season in terms of knowing we were really talented, knowing that we had just broke the school record for wins the year prior of where are we going to be able to keep that same mindset? And, um, and we got into the season and, um, honestly, I think our mindset was just, it wasn't on that it was. It was on how do we, how do we win these baseball games? How do we go down to Christopher Newport usually a top 25 team and try to beat them in a three game series? How do we then go to Randolph-Macon the next week and play three games against the top 25 team and then, to top it off, go play hopkins right after that, which is the number one team in the country at the time? And, uh, so our schedule was. I mean, I think that's what people didn't recognize too when they saw how many losses we had of how tough or out of conference schedule actually was. But, um, we got past. Like once we finished hopkins we were, like you said, one in six or one in seven and and we had just struck out 15 times in that game as an offense and that's one of our things as an offense of like limiting the strikeouts and and putting pressure on defenses.
Speaker 3:And, um, on the on the way back from that ride, like a little frustrated, had a good conversation with it with a couple players that came to the front of the bus and just were chatting a little bit and we just kind of were trying to figure out where did we go wrong? Because we had the same, almost the same team with some really good pieces coming in, and it was where did we need to adjust? And I actually ended up again, like coffee shop seems to be a common theme with our guys. But I met this player at a different player at a coffee shop. We just sat down and talked about, hey, like where are we, what are we missing? And uh, one of the things he said was coach, I just feel like it's not that you're communicating anything that's wrong. It's, it's that it's being interpreted in a way that I don't think you want it to be. And that was a huge like kind of slap in the face for me of just because I'm communicating something doesn't mean that it's being heard the way I want it to. And knowing that each guy hears something a little differently.
Speaker 3:And that was like our offensive philosophy and we didn't want to get beat deep like in terms of offensively wanting to catch the ball out front. And I think guys took that as like, oh, we need to try to like pull everything and catch everything out front, and we ended up getting kind of fooled on off speed pitches, but at that same time. It was was we started to grasp like, the idea of, of just this, the surrender of like, look like, if our ultimate purpose, if our outcomes, don't dictate our identity, then why are we so worried about the outcomes? And it was we were playing tight, we were playing with like pressure-filled baseball early in the season, like we needed to match what we did the year prior and it, honestly, it I wouldn't even really say that that like kind of that release or monkey off our back came until after we won the conference championship and then from that point on, it just felt like there was just like like somebody just let all of the tension and air out of the room right when we won that. It was like we just started playing our best baseball at that point and, um, seeing that take place was really cool, but it wouldn't.
Speaker 3:Without those struggles early on, we're not where we're at. If we weren't playing those good teams early on, we wouldn't have made the turnaround and we made some adjustments here and there, but I think the biggest one was just showing up every day, not so consumed with ourselves, or like guys weren't as consumed with what their stats were. It was just like how do we kind of right the ship here and just play for each other and play for the glory of God with the talents he's given us? So I mean, there's so many stories that lead up to that, but kind of in a nutshell, that's kind of what it looked like and I'm sure we'll get into the weeds of here a little bit more. But yeah, it was that rough start led us to where we got to at the end of the season, no doubt.
Speaker 1:But I think what you said there was I think that is just as critical as anything else is when you said you were able to sit down and one of your players was able to speak to you and give you some honest feedback and it may not have been exactly what you're thinking you wanted to hear, but after you hear that, I think when the team has the ability to be able to go to the coach and talk that way, that that really is a good thing for the team yeah, I, we say it all the time like, like, I think people look at conflict as like it's bad and it's not.
Speaker 3:If there's no tension or friction, then you just have all the people that are just saying yes because they think that's what they're supposed to do. We have 40 plus guys. All of them think differently. Our assistant coaches think differently than me and, in fact, if I'm the smartest person in the room, then we're probably not growing as much as we could.
Speaker 3:And um, and one of the things, one of the books that was super impactful for me over the last couple of years I read this probably five or six years ago. It was called the culture code by a coil and um, one of the stories in there was just like Popovich, the way that he led the Spurs was this openness to like critique his coaching, like openness to have conversations but it's a two way street too of the players openness to be critiqued and corrected and be spurred on and push forward. And I mean I mean it says it like iron sharpens iron, like, like it's a, it's a biblical principle, it's like you're sharpening each other, like, if you're not sharpening each other, then we're not, then what are we doing? And I think sometimes we take conflict as like offensive, but usually when we're offended by like a critique, that means that we like there's actually something internal that we need to deal with anyway. And so for me like I I'm not always great at it Like there are times if it's not in the right setting, I get offended at first, but then I'm able to come back around to it.
Speaker 3:But I think one of the things we tried to create was just an open, like an open door and an open policy where it's just like hey, like I I don't know everything, and that vulnerability piece within our program is so crucial where our guys know that, like I'm open to hear what their thoughts are. In fact, like some of the best things we've ever done are because of suggestions that they've made. And I asked them, like hey, what do we need? And like cause they know they're, they're with each other more than I'm even with them, and so like they're having conversations in the dorms and like walking to and from class. So like if I'm not listening to our players, then I'm not doing a good job at leading them because I'm not knowing what they need the most. And that open policy and that ability to come to each other and work through conflict is actually what makes us better. A team absent of conflict is usually a team that's not growing and is stagnant.
Speaker 1:Totally agree with you on that one. Now, it sounds like what you said earlier was I wrote a question out and I said, as a coaching staff, was there a time when you looked at each other's coaches and said, well, we got a chance to make a deep run here in this tournament? And it sounds like right after you won the league title? Is that correct?
Speaker 3:yeah, I would say that was one of them.
Speaker 3:I think I I would still say like I'm not sure if that's when we were like man, we could really make a huge run here. Um, there was a, there was a point throughout the season where we, um, we played like seven games in eight days or eight games in seven days where like backed up rain, like played double headers and we we didn't throw like our best arms in conference that week just because like the way it lined up and we, we didn't throw like our best arms in conference that week just because like the way it lined up and we we won like seven straight that week and we threw six different starters. And I think that's when it started clicking for me like wow, we're, we're actually pretty deep on the mound here that we have a shot. But, um, I remember going into that conference tournament and we lost the first game, I actually pretty handedly against York and kind of sitting at home just like man, like what are we doing? Like what's going on, and like I actually had to, like I was actually spending some time in prayer of just like is my heart really in the right place? We talk about like this is pointing others closer to Christ and closer to Jesus, like I. Like I was so worked up about the loss. I was like, are we really going to lose again after having a great season and being first in the conference? We showed up the next day with our mentality shifting and we ended up winning 11-1 and 10-something I don't know the final scores, but won pretty handedly and moved on.
Speaker 3:Then we got to Randolph-Macon and I think our guys were just genuinely excited. Our center fielder we got these laminated pieces of paper that were basically our credentials for the ncaa and you would have thought that he just had, like was given like like 10 million dollars. Like he was just so excited, like this is the coolest thing and this is just the attitude of like gratefulness. And then we go and we play randolph macon, who was a team that we beat once early in the year, but like they beat us pretty handedly twice in a three-game series and the game we won, like our starting pitcher just was like amazing, we won one, nothing. So to go down there and we we play them and we beat them 15, nothing.
Speaker 3:I think that was the first time that was like, oh, wow, like we we might be able to, like, make a little bit more of a run and um. Then I think we thought we could and we just every ranked team we played during the course of the season early. We felt like we were right in those games and just like something happened late in those games that we ended up losing. Like we were up five, nothing to penn state harrisburg in the eighth inning and had a really bad inning and ended up losing eight, six or something. And um, salisbury, we spotted him four runs in the first inning and ended up losing 6-1 early in the season. And so I think we knew we were right there, but we just couldn't figure out how to win these big games. And to be able to see us do that against Randolph-Macon a really good team, I think was an eye-opener for our guys. They started to believe and we never looked back from that point.
Speaker 1:What would opposing coaches point to and say this is why Messiah Baseball is so difficult to beat.
Speaker 3:Well, I think just from a standpoint of on the field, some of the things is we can win games in different ways. We stole over 160 bases. We broke the school record again for home runs this year after breaking it the year before with 60-something, and we were relentless at the plate. We get hit by pitches we just scrap out. We put a lot of balls in play, our strikeouts are low and then our defense and pitching would win us games. So we also would bunt at times. There was a time against. Like method is where we bought in three straight times and, um, that helped us win a game. We stole third with two outs and the catcher over, threw it in the left field and scored. Like that was the winning run that scored and or the tying run that scored late in the game, and so I think for us on the field it was that.
Speaker 3:But uh, I think one of the umpires that down the regional said to our third base coach I think this is generally what makes us tough to beat down the stretch was was like he's like. I've never seen in my 20 plus years of umpiring a team more unified and selfless and generally like playing for each other than this group and for us to like, buy into that vision of just like. It's not about me, um, it's about pointing others closer to Christ and then surrendering surrendering our, our, our hands and the outcomes to him and just going out there and playing free and doing it for each other. Um allowed guys to have selfless at bats, allowed guys to walk and allowed guys to bunt and just sell out to that and not feel like they needed to be the hero and just trust the person behind them. They knew if they didn't get a hit, the guy behind them was going to.
Speaker 3:And I think that unity, even in the midst of conflict, right. There were games that were tight that our catcher would come in like Coach I think we need to make this adjustment or one of our guys would be like Coach we should probably bunt in this situation next time and we were like there's pushback, but we were able to work through that and stay unified through that to make us better through the stretch. So, yes, we can win games in different ways, but the unity and the ability just to buy into showing up for each other and the glory of God through everything we do is, I think, that what the umpire said about being the most unified team he's ever seen is, honestly, what allowed us to make that deep run.
Speaker 1:Well, in terms of game strategy, what are your non-negotiables? What must your team do? Well, to be a consistent winner.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, baseball is such a tricky sport, right, like you can go out and you could literally and this is what I told the guys about how special the run was that we made is, you could literally be the best team in the country the entire year, right, like, not even rankings, but just like, just play the best baseball and and you could lose the first game of the like two games in the regionals and be out because you had two bad games or made two mistakes that cost you the games. And but for us it was. It was our strategy started to shift from focusing on what the other teams were trying to do to more about doubling down on what we were good at and what we needed to do. About doubling down on what we were good at and what we needed to do.
Speaker 3:Um, and for us, like, our offensive strategy was like just being relentless, like, yes, we're going to hit home runs, but we're not going to, we're not going to have bad at bats. Like we're going to, we're going to fight, we're going to foul off pitches, we're going to have really good at bats and our shortstop in the world series, um, had a really good at bat and got out, but like it was like a 14 pitch, a bat that stretched the pitcher and made him throw more pitches and, um, like for us, like it was doubling down on what made us successful as an offense and a pitching staff and it was playing good defense, making the simple play, it was being relentless at the plate, not giving away at bats, um, and it was being able to like, throw first pitch strikes and win the one one counts and like those are some of the things, from a strategy standpoint, that allowed us to be successful and um, like for us to go out there and be able to execute those things. It wasn't like we had to be perfect, it was just hey, these are the things that we're trying to do well, but it was. It was honestly once we stopped focusing on what the other team was doing, trying to do well, but it was. It was honestly once we stopped focusing on what the other team was doing, trying to do against us, and just focusing on what made us successful.
Speaker 1:And doubling down on that is that when we actually started to make that run well, you mentioned earlier you talked about, uh, the stolen bases and, uh, I guess just wanted to kind of get an understanding here how do you teach aggressiveness without being reckless, whether it's on the base paths, at the plate or in uh game, game, decision making sure.
Speaker 3:So obviously, with 100 and something 50 something bags like we're not giving a steel sign on every one of this, right, like actually very rarely are we actually telling a guy to steal. It's like all in a system that we run, it's what we practice, it's what we do. We work on base running. I laugh because our base running coach would probably say this isn't true, but we do try to work on it 15 to 20 minutes every practice and there's a stretch where, depending on weather and what we're trying to do that day of practice, that we don't always get it in, but early in the season it's definitely 15 to 20 minutes every day of working on our leads and working our jumps and there's a system that we run through that. And I think it's not necessarily the system that makes us great at base stealing, but it's the mentality. And for us it's not yelling at guys or getting on them when they get thrown out. It's encouraging them to be like hey, tell me what you saw, why did you steal there? And if they can give us a really good answer, be like awesome, great, because we know we're going to get thrown out. That's part of it, that's part of the running bases. But our goal is to be low risk, high reward and our goal is to steal 80% higher and we've successfully done that every year, um, and so when a guy gets thrown out and he had a good jump and it's just a great pitch, a great throw to throw him out on, it's like we celebrate that we, we get excited for them, like, hey, great jump, like that was nothing you did wrong there, and it's it's taking away the fear of getting thrown out. I think guys are fearful of getting thrown out, which is why they don't run um and so to teach that we just we throw them on first base and inner squad. It's like, all right, you got to steal within the first two pitches and like the pitcher and the catcher know that too. So it's taken away that, that fear, like they're just fearful, like if they steal and get thrown out, sometimes we'll just put them right back on first base and it's just, it's creating a mentality.
Speaker 3:And I think that's a lot of baseball is like we look so so much on mechanical stuff or strategy, but the the mental side of just like how do you, how do you take away the fear, how do you take that away?
Speaker 3:Like, and that's one of our main goals is to play with joy and and surrender the results. And just go out there and play with joy um, because we're playing for a bigger purpose and that comes with stealing bases is being fearless, like and it was funny because I actually somebody there was a tweet that was put out against hopkins, um, or endicott, at one of the first two games of world series and it was, it said, messiah just stole third with two outs, uh, back-to-back times, and it was like they fear nobody. And it was kind of funny because like we were an unranked team and but like that that's our mentality two outs, we don't care, we're stealing third base. It's won us more games than it's lost us and they know what type of jumps we're looking for, and so for us that's kind of what that looks like.
Speaker 1:And I think, just telling your guys that, hey, if you do make a mistake you're not going to get pulled. They don't have that fear of if I, if I make a mistake, I'm out of the lineup right away too. But that's, that's gotta be a positive for the players, I would think.
Speaker 3:Sure, I mean, I will say to you as a job, as a, as a coach, that job's getting tougher the better we get. Uh, cause we know we have like, for example, there's a player on our roster, carter Reed, who is going to be like a phenomenal hitter the next two years for us, um, and didn't get to start every game but he he was hitting close to 400 with like four homers and 30 at-bats and just like, and we just our lineup was good enough where he just it was hard to get him in the lineup because of positionally where he played and our 1DH was playing pretty well as a senior and it was just really hard to like have that patience. But one of the things that we do try to do is understand that baseball is hard and it is. It is a difficult game and there are going to be times where you go oh for four with three k's and a ground out like it just sometimes oh for four with four k's, right, but that doesn't define the type of hitter you're going to be, and so we look at the whole body of work too with that.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I mean it is, one of our goals is to not instill that fear into guys of like hey, you make a mistake, you're gonna get and that's part of that freedom of them going out there freely knowing like hey, like I can play hard and I can try to make a big play, make it be smart about it. Like we tell them, like as we get into the playoffs, like teams know we run, so they're gonna try to hold us from running and but our job is already accomplished because they know how much we run. So the pitcher is more focused on the base runner than they are executing their pitch, which gives our hitters better pitches to hit, and so at the end of the day, it's a win-win if, even if we don't steal, because pitchers are already worried about us and I think that's that's like the this that they it's not about stealing bases, it's about scoring runs and that's our ultimate goal.
Speaker 1:And success definitely leaves clues, that's for sure. Well, let me ask you this one here. I you know I can't have you on the podcast and not ask this one. I guess you probably know this, but you were on the coaching staff for the Savannah Bananas and they are the craze around the country right now. What was that like, and can you kind of take us, take the listeners, behind the scenes and kind of share what makes that whole way of playing baseball and having fun with the crowd, what makes that so successful?
Speaker 3:I think this is where people sometimes misinterpret what they're doing. Those are phenomenal baseball players that are playing there, really good athletes. It was a little different when I was there because it was still part of the Coastal Plains League, so it was still part of a collegiate summer league and um, but they still, the way I kind of described it when I was there was like hey, when you step in between those white lines, like there it's, it's amazing baseball and um, sometimes like the white lines, like when you step in, it was this would kind of blur into that, which would still be like it would free the guys up to just enjoy it and have fun. But the way I explained it was like like an entertainment, like a kind of like a circus in a good way, outside of the white lines, where it was just some like fans were having fun. The players had fun because of that and when I tell you like it, it was one of the best organizations I've ever been a part of like, uh, jesse and emily cole like just care about the people that work there. They care about that. They truly do care about the fans. Um, and Tyler Gillum, who's the he was the head coach when I was there and um still is the head coach with them like phenomenal baseball mind, like he knows so much about baseball, um, yet like he understands, like this is this is not. This is not them trying to replace baseball, this is them trying to continue.
Speaker 3:I would say the Bananas made baseball more popular. You're watching the Pirates game yesterday and my son's six years old he was like Dad, are they playing the Bananas? Why is there guys wearing the Banana jerseys in the stands? And I was like, well, because a lot of people, people like the bananas and um, they're a lot of fun and like I think that's what there's just so much joy with the way they go about what they do. Um, that is attractive to people. It's about the fans, it's not about the players, and I think sometimes we can lose sight of that, especially in the mlb. It's like the only reason there is the mlb is because the fans are watching, or if there's no fans ever paying to watch or go to games, like baseball wouldn't exist. And so, um, man, it was just, it was such an awesome experience and, um, still really good baseball.
Speaker 3:But it would be like you would see, like when I was there they call him dancing deegan, but he was a pitcher for Kentucky and he's out there. He's dancing like in between innings of a choreographed dance. He loved doing it when he wasn't pitching, just getting to see the enjoyment that came from that. But it truly is geared towards the fans. They're so innovative. They're never stagnant. They're always trying to improve what they do. It's not just like, hey, let's just go out there and put on a show. They're like, no, let's play really good baseball while we put on a show and give, give the crowd something that's enjoyable to watch. And obviously it shows like they're selling out baseball like football stadiums right now. And, um, it's. It's been really fun.
Speaker 3:I got to take my family um to uh to the game in philadelphia last year and getting to do that like and see that on a bigger scale than even when I was there like a lot bigger scale than when I was there. Um, it was just so much fun watching like and then my son's trying to do like backflip catches on the couch and stuff and and I I think people look at that like, oh, it's ruining baseball, but like it's just generally trying like guys having fun and enjoying what they're doing and giving like fans that show up to the game something special to watch and and just kind of like immerse themselves in in in a show, just like whenever you gotta go to the movies, right like you're, you get lost in that movie. It's almost like you're in the movie. It's like that's the experience that they're trying to create and it's fast paced, uh, it's, there's a lot of action and it's just.
Speaker 1:It's really enjoyable to be a part of now, have you taken anything that while with the bananas that you apply to your team now?
Speaker 3:yeah, I I mean truthfully, like from a from a social media standpoint too is it's we like we try to. We have a lot of fun and enjoyment. And there was somebody that did research actually on the players that played with the bananas versus what they did with their college teams and like I'm telling you, like they're seeing just as good, if not better, players in this league with wooden bats and yet their stats are better when they play with the bananas than it is when they go and play with their college teams because they and I think some of their research is just like they're having fun, they're enjoying it. And the interview I got to do last night with two players like one of the things that like enjoy is one of our pillars. Like it is the first pillar of like we want to show up every day and play with joy and enjoy. It doesn't mean that we're just going out and rolling the balls out and doing nothing. Like it means that we we're we're finding joy in in the work that we put in, but we're also like just loving the fact we get to be around each other. We're enjoying the conversations, we're enjoying just the what it. What a game, what the game of baseball was meant to be was a game to have fun and enjoy it. And we get to utilize that on a bigger stage, like we did this year but also the Bananas do too.
Speaker 3:But like taking that just enjoyment about what we do and just the fun and the environment and giving our guys freedom to be who they are. Heck, we went to Raising Cane's before our first game, like the day before when we were out there and they were passing out all these arm sleeves and headbands and next thing you know, all of our guys are rocking, raising Kane's arm sleeves and stuff as they roll onto the field and just because they're a bunch of goofballs that just were okay with being who they were and enjoying it, like they didn't feel like they had to play stiff, like they got to have fun. And at the end of every infield outfield that we do, our infield coach hits the last ground ball to our shortstop. He fields it between the legs and flips it like backwards to our third baseman who catches it and goes between the legs. And they try to nail a trick play at the end of every day we do IO we still did this at the World Series Like this isn't like, just because we're on a bigger stage doesn't mean we're not going to still be who we are.
Speaker 3:And so like giving them that freedom to go out and practice and play and, just honestly, we let them try trick plays during practice. At times it's enjoyment and our shortstop actually executed a behind-the-back bounce pass to our second baseman and turned a double play in our alumni game this year, which I have a video of. It was awesome. But just like. Those are the things I think our guys like, why they love being here so much. They get to do things for a bigger purpose and glorify god, but they get.
Speaker 1:They get to do it with enjoyment and fun while also working hard and getting better yeah, I, I'm convinced, my best years, when we had the most wins, it seemed like as the teams that had the most fun, and you know that, uh, you know whether it was. Uh, I think one time we had the thing called fighting Fridays, where everybody wore their fighting neck, neck, you know, and then they ended up trading them off to each other and and it was just one of those goofy things Cause they, they were in at one point and then. But it was just one of those goofy things Cause they, they were in at one point and then. But every young baseball player had a fighting necklace at some point, you know. But, um, I, I question that. I asked every, every coach that we bring on hate losing or love winning.
Speaker 3:Uh, uh, I would say it used to be.
Speaker 3:I hated losing more than I loved winning, and one of our third baseman, drew Hurst, actually answered this in the interview the other day and it was almost like the more we won this year, the less we cared about winning and we knew for us that winning was just another way, another avenue to allow us to keep playing another day. Another way, another avenue to allow us to keep playing another day. That's what they were more concerned about. That's why they enjoyed the wins is because they didn't care about the win itself. They just didn't care that they got to be together another day. That ride home after we lost the national championship game.
Speaker 3:Wisconsin-whitewater is one of the best college baseball teams I've ever went up against. We lost to them in the championship and, don't get me wrong, we were trying to go out there and compete and win, but we got our doors blown off, to say the least. But our ride home, you would have thought our guys won the national championship because they got to play until the final day of the season. There were only two teams that got to do that and we were one of them, and I will say I used to hate losing more than I loved winning, because it was like winning almost became a relief and losing was just like man like well, now what? Like well, how do we bounce back? And it was just constantly like fixing things. Where truthfully it was, it was after we lost the first game to york this year and it's been a slow process. It wasn't just a one night thing. But I'm just like kind of praying, like like my heart is not in the right place, like my job. The reason I coach is to help these guys like grow closer to Christ and not find their identity in baseball. Like and that's truly what we do try to do Like we try to allow our guys to play with freedom, because their identity is not found in how good of a baseball player they are. And for me, when that was the case, when winning was a relief and losing was like the end of the world, I knew my identity was found in winning and losing baseball games. And as soon as our last baseball game was over, like throughout this past year, was like somebody's already looking to who's going to win next year. They're already predicting like, all right, who's going to be the winner next year, like nobody really cares about who the winner is right now and, like in in two weeks, like nobody cares about that anymore, and so if we're finding our identity in that including myself, so it's almost like it's.
Speaker 3:For me it's more about the journey than it is outcomes. And that question is, I would say used to definitely be, winning was a relief and losing was like I hated losing more than I liked winning. But I would say now I'm just trying to be present and embrace the journey so much more, because when we truly surrendered our hands to what God had in store for us in the story that he written, it was just this freedom, that it was about the journey. It wasn't about the outcomes. And, man, what a cool experience that was to get to do that with our guys and see them grow in that and and know that they're not going to be defined by how much money they make in their job when they leave college or or how nice of a house they have or how nice of a car they drive, but it's the things in life that, like that, we're able to glorify and point others closer to christ through that. So, um, yeah, I used to be what I said, but now it's like win or lose, like I'm the same person.
Speaker 3:I think one of the one of the things that said in the interviews after a press conference after we lost it was kind of like it was. I could feel the tension. It was the first time we had lost in the ncaa tournament. I walked in the, in the video room and in the the reporters. It could feel like tension in there. I was like, hey, you guys can loosen up, like it's just a baseball game. Like we lost, yes, like we wanted to be like. And then you could feel like everybody just kind of breathed and somebody made the comment like well, you're the happiest coach I've ever seen lose a baseball game and that's because our identity truly isn't wrapped up in the wins. Like, yes, we pursue excellence because, like, developing Christian character and pursuing athletic excellence is one. Like it is one, it's not separate. And like we've been given the gifts and the abilities to do what we do. So like we want to do it to the best of our ability, but the outcome doesn't always go in our favor.
Speaker 1:And that doesn't change who we are. If you could manage one MLB team from any era, who would it be and why?
Speaker 3:Yeah, we got to chat about this a little bit beforehand. I love diving into locker rooms a little bit, but I think the group that the Cleveland Indians had I think that was the 90s right, my years are probably like but Tomei and Vizquel and Bell and the Alomar brothers there was just this grittiness but also like really talented team. And as much as I love hitting like I work with our hitters, primarily here um, growing up I was, I was a and no one else could hit. Don't get me wrong. He's still hit, but like I love watching him play defense. I loved like he. Like he made flashy plays but he never tried to be flashy and but was still seen as one of the best defensive shortstop of that era.
Speaker 3:And for me, I just found so much joy of watching that team play growing up that they could win games similar to what we talked about earlier. They could win games in different ways. Omar Waskel wasn't driving the ball out of the yard 30 times a year. Kenny Lofton was one of the fastest guys with fine ways on base and steal bases. A year Kenny Lofton was one of the fastest guys would find ways on base and steal bases and then you'd have your big boppers like Tomei and Bell coming up and doing that.
Speaker 3:So that was fun to watch. They were just a fun team to watch play and even though they lost to the Marlins in the World Series, I think one of those years I wish I could be a part of that team. But I think also also too, getting to see behind the scenes a little bit, and I think that's what some of these shows have done for us. But getting to see behind the scenes of the red sox team that that came back from a 3-0 deficit to the yankees and like I don't know the personality of of of millar, is like well, somebody I think would have been so much fun to be in a clubhouse with um and get to coach players like that and see him lead a clubhouse like through that Um, that also probably would be another one I would enjoy coaching.
Speaker 1:Well, I, I, you know it started up uh this week here and uh I got to ask who do you think is going to win the Division I College World Series?
Speaker 3:So I've got to know Dan over at Murray State.
Speaker 3:We're actually on a Bible study together and so he's been on that Bible study. Also there's a head coaching chat that I'm in that has Louisville's head coach in that and I would love to see Murray State kind of make a run that we did like kind of a similar boat, that we are right Like we were the only unranked team to go into the Super Regionals and we go and beat Salisbury, the number eight team, a really good team, and we get to the World Series. And we not only got to the World Series, we got to make a run to the final game of the season. And I would love to see Murray state to do that. Do I think they're going to win?
Speaker 3:I can't say that I I've dove into every team as much as I would like to, because we've been a little busy ourselves here playing baseball, but up until last week. But I would love to see Murray state make a run. Run that would be just what a story that would be to see that, see a coach like that do what he's done with a lot less than what these other teams are doing it with yes, that that would be phenomenal because it it really can't happen in any other.
Speaker 1:You know, college sports like football or basketball, that would never, ever happen. But uh, just just to see a team and a coach like that make that run, that's what makes it great. I can remember when my son was like 11 or 12, we took his travel team out to Omaha and played in a tournament and the sole purpose for me and I think for a lot of the kids when they got done with it was the games were great that we got to play in. But we got tickets to the College World Series and that's when, I think Stony Brook and Kent State. They were in there, you know, and it was really neat to see teams like that, you know, advance that far in the tournament. And that was just. If you've never been to a game at Omaha, you got to make that a bucket list for for any listener out there or or for yourself, because it is just a phenomenal experience.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, that is definitely still one of my bucket list items. And having two boys that seem to like baseball as of right now, seem to like baseball as of right now, I'd love to, as they get older, make that my first time going, but also their first time going too.
Speaker 1:So that's definitely a bucket list thing for me to get out to. I guess ideally it'd be as if you could win that D3 title and then just jump on a plane and head out to the D1 world. That'd be a great thing.
Speaker 3:Oh, exactly, that'd be a pretty nice way to celebrate. I'm not sure my wife, that's where my wife would love uh us taking another trip to see more baseball after just finishing a seven, six month season.
Speaker 1:But uh, I know the boys and myself would enjoy that, so yeah, Well, let me finish up with one last question here, Cause it's it's Friday night and it's after 10 o'clock, and at the time of this recording here, give me one funny story from all your years of either coaching or playing baseball that when you look back on that, you know you'll probably be telling your assistants, or maybe one day sharing that story with your own kids. One day oh man, with your own kids one day.
Speaker 3:Oh man, give me a second here, because just to process a lot of stories that have happened throughout the years.
Speaker 1:Well, to give you a chance to think of it here, clint Hurdle was on the podcast a while back and he said they were playing terrible when he was coaching the pirates. And it was like the third or fourth game of the series and they had lost and and he was just like I had enough of it. He said I'm getting tossed. And he went out to get tossed and the umpire told him you guys are playing terrible, I have to watch it. So you got to watch it, so I'm not throwing you out that is.
Speaker 3:That's a pretty good one. Um, man, like, ah, so many, so many different stories, uh, like that kind of come to mind. Um, uh, man, I'm trying to think of a funny one that's not just like a like your everyday one. Um, I mean, we have our, our dugout, our, our players are pretty unique in terms of who they are. I've said they're just goofballs. Like they genuinely are just a group of goofballs who like love being out there together and just have a blast doing it. But I think I'm trying to think of something that happened like in game. But but for us, like, I think one of the one of the funniest things that that takes place with our guys that they do pretty frequently is they.
Speaker 3:They actually they play this called like, uh, mafia. I don't know if you've heard this or not, but it's basically they all get fake roles and so, like they're, they're in there, they just get different roles. It's almost like a, like a, like a cop game time, like figure out who's who, without them really knowing um, and just like um the, the trips that you get to have on a bus, and so our trip home from the world series, um, and I kind of like blank out a little bit, like I, I kind of like, I kind of like tune them out a little bit at times and we're like, pulling into campus this is a five-hour bus ride, right, like this is a five-hour bus ride where guys are trying to entertain themselves and mafia is a game where, like you put your head down, you close your eyes for like 60 of the game, and so like they're, and like we pull in and we're about to pull in and guys like I heard them just finish a game and I was like you guys just like just play another game. They're like, oh no, coach, like we've been playing for four hours straight and like just the whole bus ride. They just they're playing, playing that game for four hours straight and, um, but yeah, I, I that was kind of put me on the spot there and like, obviously, I think those are the things that I remember just like, as a like just getting to see our guys enjoy each other um, and like, just like some other small things, like I, I can't tell you I've and we this is the first time I've had to cut a roster down to 25 people that are allowed to dress and then dug out from the NCAA. But I can't tell you, I've seen a player more than one of our starting pitchers who got shifted from the 25 man to like dugout personnel who would like, cause he just started so you could shift back and forth with the roster rules.
Speaker 3:But I told him he was dugout personnel that day, which is what they label it it as, and you would have thought that I was telling him that, like he was like newly hired assistant coach and so, like you know, this is the world series. He's calling the team up. He's like coach, I got this, we got a team huddle here, like in between innings, and he's like guys, I'm dug out personnel today, here's what we're gonna do and just like starts taking over as a coach, and so I I mean I mean there's so many stories like that but like just them being able to do that and, uh, have fun with each other, like I, it's hard to pinpoint one story and I'm sure, like after I get off this call, I'm going to be like man, I should have said that story, cause that one's really fun, um, but yeah, I think those are all just the memories that keep coming up for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had a player one time that he was in the dugout with us and he goes and he just, we always had fun. And he looked at me. He goes hey coach, I'm going to take one. I'm like what do you mean? I'm going to go out and talk to the pitcher and then I look over and the whole bench is laughing. It's like he set it up, you know, and I was like he. Just he up, you know, and I was like he. Just he broke the tension and I, you know it was this. It's stories like that. You know that it wasn't something that happened on the field, it was the dugout, mike, for you was the, the bus rides and stuff. Those are the things that you know. 20 years from now, those guys are going to probably remember more than a certain play during the season, that's for sure oh, 100, like I, I just that's what we try to tell our guys too.
Speaker 3:Like you, these, the win, like the fact you got to go on this journey you're never going to forget this.
Speaker 3:Like right, like winning allowed you to, like, have this experience together, but like that's not. What you're going to remember is the games as much like you're going to remember moments from the games and, but you're going to remember the moments from the games that you got to celebrate with your teammates, or, uh, got to laugh about something that happened during the game, or got to have the bus ride, or like, like, talk together as a team about how we're about to eat at chipotle for the seventh time in 10 days or something, and so like, those are the things that you're never going to forget. Um, and I try to remind guys of that and of just how quickly your time goes as a player and you are the games are only such a small portion of of that experience you get to have. Um, it's going to be the, the hours in the weight room. It's going to be the, the time that you're you've on the buses at the late nights after a doubleheader sweep. Those are the things that you never forget.
Speaker 1:Yes, Well, thanks to 2025 Division III National Championship runner-up, Messiah University head coach Phil Schallenberger for taking time to be on Baseball Coaches Unplugged. Thanks a ton Coach.
Speaker 3:No, I appreciate it, ken. It was a blast just getting to remember some of the things that took place, and thanks for having me on here.
Speaker 1:Today's podcast was powered by the Netting Professionals, improving programs one facility at a time. Contact them today at 844-620-2707, or visit them online at wwwnettingproscom if you want to have your field looking its best. That's all for today's show. Be sure to check us out every Wednesday for new episodes with some of the best baseball coaches across the country. As always, I'm your host, coach Ken Carpenter. Thanks for listening to Baseball Coaches Unplugged. Thank you.
