BASEBALL COACHES UNPLUGGED

Baseball Coaching Tips for Practice Plans, Hitting, Pitching & Culture

• Ken Carpenter • Season 4 • Episode 20

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A Hall of Fame career doesn’t happen by accident—it’s built on clear language, daily habits, and choices that put integrity first. Coach Ken welcomes ABCA Hall of Famer Terry Ayers to trace five decades of high school baseball and why, despite all the data and tech, the path to better players is still surprisingly simple: see the ball, repeat the fundamentals, and keep people at the center.

We dive into practical hitting frameworks that start with vision—where to set your eyes, how to pick up spin, and how to avoid overloading hitters with swing thoughts. On the mound, Terry reframes the modern velocity chase with a coach’s view of sequencing and repeatability, breaking the delivery into linked movements and using slow-motion video to make fast patterns teachable. He shares his “core four plus one more” approach for daily drills, and the overlooked power of longer, smarter catch play to sharpen command.

The conversation opens up to what separates good coaches from great ones: aligned vocabulary, relentless fundamentals, and practices that stay fun without losing intent. Terry gets candid about burnout and balance—leaving wins and losses at the park—and offers a blueprint for working with parents through quick, consistent conversations that build trust before problems flare. Along the way, he tells the story of a split-second choice not to bend the rules, a moment that defined his leadership and the culture players still remember.

If you care about coaching culture, player development, pitching mechanics, hitting cues, and real-world leadership, this one is packed with on-field tactics and off-field wisdom. Listen to learn how to simplify hitting, build repeatable pitching, and strengthen relationships that sustain programs year after year. If this episode helps your team or your coaching, subscribe, share it with a coaching friend, and leave a review—we read every one.

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SPEAKER_01:

Today on Baseball Coaches Unplugged, I sit down with a high school coach who started in 1972. We discuss changes in the game, simplifying hitting, and a unique discussion you can have with your parents that will make the coach's life easier. Terry Ayers, ABCA Hall of Famer, next on Baseball Coaches Unplugged.

SPEAKER_00:

This is the Ultimate High School Baseball Coaching Podcast, Baseball Coaches Unplugged, your go-to podcast for baseball coaching tips, drills, and player development strategies. From travel to high school and college. Unlock expert coaching advice grounded in real success stories, data-fact training methods, and mental performance tools to elevate your team. Tune in for bite-sized coaching wisdom, situational drills, team culture building, great stories and proven strategies that turn good players into great athletes. The only podcast that showcases the best coaches from across the country with your host, Coach Ken Carpenter.

SPEAKER_01:

This episode of Baseball Coaches Unplugged is powered by the Netting Professionals Improving Programs, one facility at a time. Will Meyer and his team at the Netting Professionals specialize in the design, fabrication, and installation of custom netting for baseball and softball. This includes backstops, batting cages, BB turtles screens, bulk hearts, and more. They also design and install digital graphic wall padding, windscreen turf, turf protectors, dugout benches, and cubbies. The netting pros also work with football, soccer, lacrosse, golf courses, and pickleball. Contact them today at 844-620-2707. That's 844-620-2707. Or visit them online at www.nettingpros.com. Check out Netting Pros on X, Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn for all the latest products and projects. Welcome to episode 189. I'm your host, Coach Ken Carpenter. Before we jump in, please be sure to hit that subscribe button and look for a new episode every Wednesday where I sit down with some of the best baseball coaches from around the country. Let's talk baseball with ABCA Hall of Famer and 50-plus year vet Terry Ayers. Coach, thanks for taking time to be on the Baseball Coaches Unplugged podcast.

SPEAKER_02:

My pleasure. My pleasure, Ken.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, you started in 1972. When you look out on the field today, what's the single biggest change you've witnessed in how it's baseball's being played? Well, this if I look out on the field, that's probably the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_02:

It's covered with snow right now.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Um well, I I I I think coaching clinics actually is the biggest by far, overall, the biggest change to baseball. Um the sharing of knowledge, the sharing of information, the showing of drills. Um ABCA clinics over the course of years have been phenomenal and helping coaches at every level um get better, which means kids get better, which means the game itself gets better. And I and I do think there's a huge difference between players of the 70s and players today. The skill refinement is, you know, you can set your fingertips on us, other than you and I trying to get on this podcast together.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Well, the uh the swing has evolved from hands to the ball in the 70s to launch angle, bat path, and just about everything you could possibly imagine out there being taught today. In your opinion, you've been around the game for quite some time. What's what's the best way to teach hitting a baseball?

SPEAKER_02:

Wow. Well, let me let me let me back you up to show you where where we started. When I first started coaching, we were told by everybody, you can't teach hitting, you can't teach hitting. Those boys can either hit or they can't hit. Well, that's exactly what, and we accepted that. Uh, you know, I thought there were some things we could do and tried to do them, but um yeah, uh it's come a long way. The best way I think to to teach hitting, and I don't really teach hitting because I'm a pitching guy, but to quite frankly answer your question is to simplify it. I think getting coaches today have sometimes made hitting so complicated. It's uh the players are up there at analysis and they go into paralysis and they can't hit. Um, you know, was it yogi? You can't hit some tanks at the same time. Uh probably true.

SPEAKER_01:

Definitely go ahead. Definitely agree with you on that. You know, it's uh, you know, at the ABCA clinic just uh just uh a couple weeks ago, they you know, Mattingley up there, he he made it about as simple as possible. And when he was playing the game, he was a very good elite hitter, and he was probably there was a stretch where he was one of the better players in the game at that point.

SPEAKER_02:

That's absolutely correct. Yeah, you know, many, many, many years ago, uh, and now I'm second baseman for the Tigers. Lou Whitaker. Uh, I went to a clinic they back then they were called the medalist clinics. Went to a clinic in Chicago, and I'm gonna hear Lou Whitaker talk for an hour and a half on hitting. And I'm excited, I'm really fired up, and I'm I'm anxious to hear what he can tell me about hitting because this guy can hit. I think he should be in the hall of fame, but anyway. So I I get it, it was uh chairs right in front of the podium, and lo and behold, that's exactly where I sat. Right square in front of Lou Whitaker because I wanted to pick up every single thing he had to say. I didn't want to miss a thing. And here's what he's I would tell you, his entire speech. You ready? I seize it, I seize it, I hits it. I seize it real goods, I hits it real good. If I don't seize it, I don't hits it. End of end of speech for an hour and a half.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02:

That's what I said, and of course, I think he's I think he's got on. I think that's you know, the better I can see the ball, the better I'm I got a chance to hit the ball. There's no question about that. Nobody's gonna argue that. Um, but did he tell me anything that I didn't know? And the answer is probably. We don't spend a lot of time teaching kids where to look for the ball, how to look for the ball, what to look for when you're looking at the ball. If the ball does, if you see this, it's probably this pitch. You know, if you see a little black dot, a red dot, whatever color the dot is, it's a red dot actually. Up in the quadrant to uh north east, probably a curveball. If you can see it, you know, it's probably a curveball. Um so you know, kick yeah, I think there's a lot to be said of uh, you know, focus. We you know, the word the coaching word is focus and find focus. Um, we don't teach kids how to do that. Uh and get into exactly how to teach it. Um, you know, do what do you focus on when it's not pitching? Well, for me, it's the number on his hat, his logo on his hat. Look at his hat because if you look at that, the ball's gonna come to the throwing arm side, pick it up. The more time you're gonna see it, the better chances are you have to hit it. Like Glue said, see it, hit it. So, you know, I think that's a big part of trying to hit today. But and that's what that's what the coaches clinics have done. They've taught all coaches how to how to teach this, what to look for, how to teach it, etc.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Well, you know, you mentioned you know your specialty is pitching, and it's probably changed just as much as the the swing has changed, and uh the obsession is velocity, and that's all that uh it seems like is being focused on. And how do you get today's pitchers to spend as much time on having command of the zone and and and learning how to to just get guys out?

SPEAKER_02:

You well, you've you've kind of already started, but you gotta get away from the word velocity. If you throw it at 112, but you throw it over the backstop, you're not gonna get many hitters out. Correct. Uh so you you know, pitching is basically in less than just over a second, uh second and a half, uh, from flip front left to all being released is uh about a second and a half. Uh a lot of things happen. Um 12 different integrated movements are made. Uh, a sequence of movements are made. That's complex. They happen so fast that the human eye can't see it. So you've got to break the skills down so that a young man can pick it up or a young boy can pick it up, and they can get better. And you and it's very difficult to do. Um sequential unlocking of the of the throwing motion from leg lift to front foot stripe to release of the ball is well, we we have I have drills and skills for each one of that, those parts. But the the good part is I don't have to see it all. I can put it on my iPhone, I can record it in slow motion, I can break it down frame by frame and show the pitcher exactly what he's doing, when he's doing it, and why it's correct or why it's incorrect. So, you know, all of that kind of goes together with what you talked about. How is pitching changed? I just talked a lot of it. I mean, we didn't have iPhones. I I use iPhone iPhone now all the time when I'm teaching uh a lesson or with our pitchers.

SPEAKER_01:

Go ahead, Ken. Well, you've been a speaker at the ABCA and conducted coaching seminars in seven different states. What separates good coaches from great coaches?

SPEAKER_02:

I think great coaches always are orange. I think great coaches listen to their players and and try to understand exactly what the players are asking you for, communicating with. You know, communicating with kids today is so important. Every word is so important because it's it's probably very meaningful for a very specific action. So I you know, I tell our guys I I want everybody speaking the same language. Uh you know, what what does what does equal and opposite elbows and forearms exactly mean? And is it are they all the same? No, there's probably 80 of them, but they're all the opposite and equal of one another. So you know, I think that's the biggest thing. And I and I think great coaches today become really good students of the game. When I think back to the guys that I I admired, uh State Doyle Baseball School. I worked for them for quite a long time. Diddy Bryant and Blake Doyle. Great teachers of the game, broke skills down, the fundamentals, and repeated the fundamentals. I think great coaches do that. And something else they all do, make it fun. Kids gotta have fun. Baseball, especially for younger kids, is boring. It's slow. So you've got to figure out a way to change that diet dynamic instantly as a good coach today.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, give me thr give me three fundamentals coaching principles for if you were going to give advice to a first-time head coach.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, first of all, I'm great staff that's loyal and dedicated to the combined success of the school and to yourself and to the head coach who are loyal. Um and in today's world that is saying a bunch. Um, you know, with the portal and everybody transferring coaches moving and leaving, and players moving and leaving, the old quality of loyalty. You know, I'm here, I've been here for whatever years is almost unheard of. So loyalty to school, loyalty to the program, loyalty to each other. Uh certainly it goes a long way. I I think another we get all caught up in the drills and skills. I I think a lot of what you need to build, certainly drills and skills you gotta have, but I think you build them through development development of a culture, a baseball culture, uh really hard to do. Uh, and it you it takes time, a little patience, because you're not gonna change it in one year. Um, but I think a great example of that is the University of Indiana football program. He changed the culture, he changed the attitude. And look what he did. Um he's a great coach. That's a great example of a modern-day Greek coach. You listen to him a lot, you know, you know, he listens. Players even say that to you. Um, he's he makes it fun. Uh, and he loves his kids, the kids love him back. I think that's also important. You know, that by the way, that hasn't happened until the last few years. The players and coaches would literally say, Hey guys, I love you. Great job, great job, I love you. I love the way you I love the way you hustle today. Uh, and and being it in my case, a grandfather image I suppose today. Uh, so that's a couple, and then I guess I would get after I've had that, and I build a culture through what I would call I have a set of drills that you practice every single day that are fundamental to the game, but are fun. Um, I had pitching drills every day. We we called it four core four plus one more, and we'd do the core four every single day, and and then I'd throw in one more, which was a probably a little bit different that we had before, and we we'd we'd do those every single day. Um, we didn't necessarily have to repeat them, uh, but I think if you repeat drills every day for short periods of time, you get pretty good at doing that skill. A simple skill like playing catch. Kids kids pitch too much today, they don't play catch enough. Um, how long do they play catch for? Uh most high school, when I go watch a high school team, most kids play catch for about seven minutes. Uh they should be almost twice that length of time, just playing catch. Um we don't teach them enough about different types of catch, underhand catch, short catch, flips, long flips. I call them stem throws, um, etc. Going through our left fielding and throwing and setting our feet, all of that should go into a, you know, I I would call them uh the core four for fielding. Plus one one more, you know, and the core four for the four today, let's say, is to the left, to the right, coming in, um, and and catching one hop hotline drives right at you. Um, and the one more could be after we hit the hotline drive or turn a double play. So, you know, it's it's not easy to coach. It's not you have to think about it. Um, and by the way, one of the other building a building a foundation of a culture. I had our seniors teach the drills to the freshmen and sophomores um to build a culture. And the reason was if I knew they could teach it, I certainly knew that they understood what was expected of them. So does that answer that question?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, definitely. Well, as someone who served who served on the ABCA Hall of Fame committee, what patterns did you see in coaches who can suc sustain success versus the ones who burn out?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I think one of the reasons coaches burn out is because they're getting torched at home. Um you've gotta have a you've gotta have a special relationship with a delicate balance between your home wife and your wife, your kids, and your and the commitment to baseball in your school. Um I personally think you gotta leave it good and bad at the ballpark for the most part. I tried not to talk about very much at home ever. Good, bad, or indifferent. Um I tried to separate my lives because you know what is my seven-year-old son at the time care whether or not we won or lost today. What does my wife care? Really care. You know, I should be a good person, a good dad, a good role model, win, lose, indifferent, regardless of what my vocation is about being a baseball coach. So I think that's one of the reasons we have a lot of burnout today. Uh guys is they're getting a lot of heat at home. Yeah, uh, I would try to avoid that. Also, I don't think that coaches get, well, as I tell coaches, if coaches don't help coaches, who do you think is gonna help you? I think coaches need to older coaches need to step up and help younger coaches get through hard times. I think you need to sit down after games and sit the dugout and have a conversation with the guys, talk about the game, and talk about what's going on, whatever else somebody might come up with. It's that's what I said. One of the keys for me is are you listening to what people are saying? Um, and I you know, a lot of people talk about parents today. I really haven't experienced the horribleness that I've seen it, and I and I understand there's an issue going on in Ohio right now with some talk coaches being released for I don't know what reasons really. Um I think we need to reach out to parents a little bit. I'm not trying to be their friend, but I would rather know, I would rather have several conversations of two or three minutes throughout a time period of two or three weeks with a parent. Hi, how are you? What's going on? Hey, uh said had a bad sore throat a couple days ago. How's he doing with that? How's he recovering? Is there an issue there? I think if you just be a human and talk to parents prior to a problem, you've you developed a little bit of rapport where the issue isn't your first conversation with that parent. And I think oftentimes that's exactly what happens. And for the most part, they don't go well.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. I yeah, it's it's a challenge for coaches probably now more than ever.

SPEAKER_02:

And you know, it's you you gotta have some thick skin to be a coach nowadays, and uh it it's yeah, you know, for for me, I just think that almost in reverse. You guys have a thick skin to be a parent today. Yes. You know, you can't and when you look at the role of a parent, and I've I was a parent, my son played a little bit and had a great career actually, got his degree, uh, CPA finance major. Uh I mean, not very not very many people could play Major League Baseball, but boy, he's sure doing well financially and and you know professionally, professionally. So parents would very few parents would ever come to me on a negative issue. Because I I can I think as a coach, you know when they're somewhat unhappy, you know, and also one of the things that we got lucky with many, many years ago, we had some parents that really got it, and uh and they planted a seed that had a lot of seedlings. And what did they do? They told the other parents, we don't do that here. You got you got a problem with coach, you you need to you need to call him up and talk to him. Okay, he's a pretty reasonable guy. You need to go, you know, and and I can remember exactly the father who started it uh 20 some years ago. Um, still friends today, which is amazing. Who, by the way, lives in Minneapolis, which is in today's environment is kind of ionic, but uh ironic, I should say. Um so I think it's building a rapport with everybody. Um it's gonna is one of the common commonalities. And again, look at look at the coach in Indiana. He changed the whole culture from the student body to the president of the university. And those people were thrilled to death. Look what's going on in enrollment. The culture of Indiana, look what it's done for the business community. Selling out football games after football games. It's all positive stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Without a doubt, you know, it's a it's a thing that uh I agree that you know that there are there are still some coaches out there that do, there's a lot of coaches who do the right thing in every aspect of it. The the challenge they they face is there are going to be some parents out there that no matter what you do are going to be unhappy. And rather than go to the coach like you're suggesting, they just tend to go straight to the top. And I've had numerous guests on. I've heard all the stories from all over here in the state of Ohio, and it's just it's you're on a one-year contract as a coach, and sometimes it's easier for the AD just to not renew you, just to get the the parent or parents off your off the ads back.

SPEAKER_02:

And one day it's gonna be him. And who's gonna support him? Yeah, the A B. Who's gonna support the principal when their job's on the line? That's what I said. That coaches don't help coaches, don't talk to coaches, we don't sit down and talk. And that's one of the big problems we have in society today. We can't talk to each other anymore. Um, and I think that's why big I think that's why athletics, in my case, baseball, is so important. Uh you're I I think you asked me what successful people do. That's what they do. They put out fires before they become blazing infernals, uh, because they figured out some way to get, you know, to talk about it. And and and you are gonna meet parents that are totally unreasonable. Um and I think AD's administrators in general, if they hang with that, are making a making a horrible mistake. They well, I think schools, schools in general for many, many years ago made some huge mistakes, like losing discipline. And I I think a discipline is a positive thing and a positive word. Uh I tell coaches, little discipline, little learning, much much discipline, much learning. Uh, I think that creates a great environment. You've got to be disciplined to be a good athlete. Um, and that I think that's a wonderful thing to have happen. Uh, but we we we don't give enough, we don't put in enough energy to solve little problems before they become big. Yes, I hear a lot of coaches say, I don't know, those parents rah rah rah rah rah. Why not? It's gonna be a problem, you better hand it off before it becomes a problem in my mind. Yes, you know, I mean, and the coaches would tell on our staff would tell me, how do you get away with that? I said, because I just tell them the truth. We're friends. I'm not their buddy, but I'm a I'm a friend. I'm a you know, their their son, I spend more time with their son than they do. You know, I thought those people don't even take time to think about that. I literally spend more time in a in a practice session from from two from 2 15 to 5 30 or whatever it is we practice one-on-one with in my case with pitchers. Then they probably do all day. They're off to school, they see you in the morning for a little bit, they practice out the door, they're at school all day, they go to baseball practice, they get home, they eat dinner, do their homework, go to bed. Very few with very little contact. Um, you know, and I and I tell, well, what's the what's the I can't, as I said, I kind of flip the script. Um, I tell parents, look, you guys think I know a few things about pitching. Yeah, well, I think you know a few things too. And I want you to fulfill those things that you really do a good job on. And I want you, you know, are you controlling your son's diet? Are you controlling his sleep habits? Are you controlling his schoolwork? Are you controlling who he's dealing with? Are you controlling, you know, and I you've got a lot of things to deal with. I have pitching to deal with. If you will take care of the homework, schoolwork, diet, uh sleeping, health care, the importance of hanging with the right kind of people, developing your uh uh you know your Christian beliefs, if that's where you believe in, and so on. Uh you got a lot to do. I got one little thing to do. Teach a little pigeon. They look at they kind of look at you like, wow, yeah, I'm right. Yes. Let me ask you this. That that's why I said I I I think it's important you develop a rapport with with with folks, and I know, and it's hard. And sometimes, you know, it's the last thing to do. Yes, totally agree. I mean, before the game starts, how many, how many coaches go over to the stand and say, hey, everybody, thanks for coming today. Hope we have a good game. Hope your boy plays well. Almost every how many how many coaches do that? Very few. How many coaches shake hands with their players every single day? Ask them, how you how you feeling today? How's your arm? How's school today? How's your sore throat? What's going on? What's new today? Hey, I got a note from the teacher in science said you were kind of a screw-off today. After practice today, you and I need to talk about that. Uh, that's what I'm saying. If you take through things like that, they kind of get nipped in the butt before they get to be a forest fire, hopefully. Yes, and you're still gonna have them.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, they're they're not gonna go away.

SPEAKER_02:

That's they're not gonna go away. But if we can just keep beating them back a little bit, stay ahead of it. Yes, yeah, yeah and get the parents somewhat on your side. Because we, after all, what do we want? We want both of us want the best thing in our case for for our sons. Isn't that generally what we want? We want the best thing for our boys. Um, as I said in the Hall of Fame speech. So that's my goal. Very simple. So many men out of so many boys. Um, you know, that's that's the goal. There you go. Well, man, if you talk, if you talk to kids, if you no, if you listen to kids, that's what they are most proud of. Look, over we just kind of finished a Christmas vacation here, Christmas break, holiday break. I I went, I had five groups of players call me and say, hey coach, can we go to practice? Can we go to lunch? They didn't talk about wins and losses, they they talked about how much fun we had. You remember this? Do you remember that? Do you recall that? Well, you know, and then we'd all just sit and laugh. Um, I can hardly remember. Oh, they're gonna talk about winning the state championship, they're gonna talk about winning conference games, they're gonna talk about all those, all those things, but they talk about it in context of how much fun it was, and uh and how they, you know, I I've had a well, let me there's a kid we had many years ago who went through Northwestern Medical School from beginning to end in three years, internship in three years, that usually takes six or seven. Huh, he was the smartest dude I've ever I've ever been around. I mean, a kid I don't know what to love a genius, but that's where he was. Uh he they doubled and tripled his um curriculum every semester. I don't know how, and he handled that straight whatever A's, I guess. Um, you know what he said to me? Hey coach, you know why I got through school? Because of you. Talking about discipline, you talking about this, you talking about that. I I was totally floored. You know, when you said sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. Just something really simple. Yes, you know, do you want him? No, not necessarily. Do you want to? But that's that's a quality that I really think the best guys I've been around have done. You know, all all one other thing. Coaches need to look for their their mentors. The guys they'll put on Mount Rushmore. They're their Mount Rushmore. Uh, and and think about why they were so important, uh, and how they how they developed them to be a better person is a better coach. And if you're lucky, you're gonna get around a couple. Not very many.

SPEAKER_01:

Let me ask you this do you hate losing or love winning?

SPEAKER_02:

Uh hate's uh hate's a negative emotion. Um I don't I don't I don't I wouldn't use that word. Um hate is self-destructive. Uh I I guess I would have to say I would say it embrace winning, learn from learn from defeat. Okay, that works. I like that. Um and we want to want and I would tell the guys, hey boys, enjoy this. Put this W in your pocket. It's fun to whip. And then after we go we would get beat. I'd say, hey boys, that wasn't very much fun today. Not fun getting your butt kicked, is it? What do we learn today? What'd you learn today? I'm not gonna just I want you to think about it. What could we done better? And sometimes you know, they're they know what they done wrong. We don't have to rub their face in it. Um, you know, let's learn from it. We're gonna practice a couple of things tomorrow that we messed up at the game today, so hopefully that will not ever happen again. When we do it tomorrow, I'll watch you guys get locked in on it. It's gotta get better. Yes. When I when I first went when I first went to North, I was a volunteer assistant at North, by the way, for the past 18 years. And I loved it. One of our first practices, we I we we practice first and third steals, okay, defensively. So when pitchers are stopping them, trying to stop, hold them on, defense, and so on. Got all done after we're sitting in the dugout, as I said, let's talk about this. What you think? Head coach said, What'd you think of our first and third today? I said, I think we're in a lot of trouble. He looked at me, said, If our pitchers are that bad that we got many that many times, we got to practice first and third, we're not gonna win very many games. Uh he was just shocked. I said, Wow, we're we're I think I got a lot of work to do on the mound. Um I said, I I would have had to practice double plays for first and thirds, and I was whoa. And I meant that as a kind of a corrective criticism, if you will.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Let me ask you on this one here.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

You've been around a game for quite some time, and uh who in your mind is the best MLB pitcher ever and the best MLB hitter ever?

SPEAKER_02:

Well you're cleaning your your you're scratching really fit almost just rubbing the surface between the best and the the elites. But for me, probably the best hitter left-handed hitter I would say was Ted Williams. And I think the right-handed hitter was Hank Heron. And that would be boy. And then where do you put Mays? And where do you put Tomaggio? And where do you put Mutual? And where do you put uh Pooh holes? And where do you put Aaron Judd? And where yeah, you know that where do you put that? I don't know if I mentioned Manil. Where do you put Manil and Carla Ustremsky and Frank Thomas? And oh my goodness, are you kidding me? Uh I saw the the difference between great hitters and uh and I the the reason I would put Ted Williams as as first is a little history, probably, and I was a history teacher. When I go back to the all-star game of what year was it, 90, whatever it was, the agreed all-star game, and Ted Williams came down the morning track in a golf cart, and they stopped the game, they stopped the beginning of the game, and every player there gathered around Ted Williams. Yes. I mean, from well, uh Tony, Tony Gwynn, are you kidding me? Tony Gwen? Um Cal Ripkin? Wow, yeah, we're talking Junior Griffith? Wow, I mean, come on. We're talking about some pretty fantastic players here, and I think they all paid homage to Ted Waves. Um, so that's probably why I put Williams there. Yeah. Who's your pitcher? My pitcher is probably gonna be that's a hard one, too. I I would probably have to go with Nolan Ryan because of the no-hitters, but you know, that's overlooking Sandy Koufax, that's overlooking Bob Gibson, Randy Jensen, Roy Holliday, um oh Bob Feller. I mean, I'm going I can go way back to, you know, some. I mean, good gosh. You know, Bob Feller in the in the 40s was throwing 100 miles an hour. You know, and they talked about that famous story of Bob Feller on a Sunday racing a motorcycle down Michigan Avenue, or maybe it was only short drive, I can't recall. In in Chicago, and the motorcycle was 100 motorcycle passing. He threw the ball, which can which got to the target first. That's the way we use the time stuff. Kidding? Yeah. But I would put no one at the top, like certainly, but that leaves out charactermatics. Are you kidding me? There's some good yeah, so when when you talk about great players, you're talking about the elite of the elite. And just being a majorly player is an elite status in and of itself. Um I I'm not sure. I'm not sure people really can appreciate just how good George Brett was. I you know, guys, that we we don't think about very often. You know. Um I just, you know, Reggie Jackson is a hitter. I mean, Mr. October, are you kidding me? All those all those games he won and all that and Mann and Maris, and of course, you know, back to Pidjing Saiyan, are you kidding me? Yeah. And there's so many weak guys that I don't really think there's a right or necessarily a wrong answer.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. What is your most memorable story to finish up here? Your most memorable story from 50 years of being around high school baseball.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, this is kind of a we're we're this was one of them megaseconds that changed my coaching life. Uh we're playing a bundle high school, and it's early spring, and both schools are not playing very well. I it was back before any, you know, computer type lineup cards, you were it was kind of wet and rainy out. You got a scorebook and you write the stuff down and all that stuff. And I had a freshman who was oh who was a good defensive player, who was O for the season. And we're playing, as I said, bundle line. I think we got the bases loaded in two outs. He hasn't got a hit for the year, and I've already pinched hit for him once. But I don't I'm looking and I looked in our scorebook, and it was nothing there. They hadn't written it down. And I thought to myself, I bet I could pitch hit for him again, and they would know it. And that would probably be sure the fact that somebody's gonna get hit, and I probably and I don't recall the kid's name who I was gonna hit uh put him in for, but I re know the boys last name was Rojas. I was gonna pitch it for him, and I all of a sudden I the boys, I I thought to myself, nobody will know. And that instantly said, but all the boys will know that I cheated. I cheated, really? I cheated, and they'll all know that I won a game because I cheated. I cannot do that. I cannot cheat to win a game. It changed my coaching life, I think. Um, so what happened? He walked up and hit a double. There you go. Uh and I but that was one of the one that one of the more if you want your players to know that you'll cheat to win. And I didn't. And I think for me that just kind of set up. Obviously, I still recall it, I don't know, 40 years later, probably, maybe 50. I just I just couldn't do that. Not because I I would have thought bad, it's because the oppression I'd have left with them, that was what was not tolerable in my mind's eye. So I don't know. It doesn't make me I I think really that's what most guys would do. Not cheat.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, I totally agree with you on that, and that's a great story. It's uh Terry Ayers, ABCA Hall of Famer, and uh he's started off at the Fenton High School in Illinois and he's been doing it for over 50 years. Coach, thanks for taking time to be on baseball. Coach was unplugged.

SPEAKER_02:

Hey, my hey, kid, it's gonna give my confidence to you. It's things like this that change change the scope of baseball. Maybe we'll get one person not to get a coach fired today. Because it's just let's go talk to each other instead of bite off each other's head. If that's accomplished away, this program has really been a huge success, huh?

SPEAKER_01:

I I definitely agree with you on that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So anyway, it's my pleasure. Thank you very much. All my best to the coaches in Ohio. Uh, I appreciate being on with buttons.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. Special thanks to Terry Ayers, ABCA Hall of Famer. Coaches, it's not too late. You need to check out the netting professionals. They're improving programs one facility at a time. You want to get your field looking best for this upcoming spring, you need to get in touch with them. Their number is 844-620-2707, or check them out online at www.nettingprose.com. Do this if you want your field looking its best. As always, I'm your host, Coach Ken Carpenter. Thanks for listening to Baseball Coaches Unplugged.

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